From afar I have been impressed both with the 'specs' of the series and the enforcement. So far as the specs no less than Jon Millege said it best so I'll not repeat. As to enforcement you guys actually did!! That's GREAT! The perspective from here is that more of the same would do you proud.

Also my previous experience is that switching to dyno based would NOT change who wins. It's exactly correct to say that dyno limits become a target. The quite natural human response to them is that they become the overarching primary enforcement tool and tech specs compliance and checking recede by comparison.

So the unintended consequence of dyno limits is that costs do not decline or stay the same. Costs increase. There is a cheap way and an expensive way to reach dyno limits. The cheap way is shave the head. Anyone can play (presumably up to the compression limits). The expensive way is to modify pistons and pins or rods and move the piston up. Or tig material into the combustion chamber. The solution is check compression. If an engine is built exactly to compression limits so be it. A (relatively) cheap way is to buy a cam from Millege (or others) complete with offset built in for head thickness. The solution is check the cams. (In fact I don't remember seeing anything about checking the cams? Good next place to go?) What about big valve heads? Transmission gearing; close ratio gears or 4:11 (or the elusive 4:30) final drives?

Dynos at the track are a major pain for everyone involved. Guys are going to start arriving at the track and going straight to the dyno for testing before the event begins. They'll have multiple DMEs to switch out for the one that's just right for that day. (Read just below the dyno limit).

Joe you say there hasn't been a problem until now. Where is the problem? The only people who have said there is a problem is the series directors. Everybody else in a vast majority seems to think there isn't a problem, other than the rules proposals! I understand you might not want to betray a confidence but since this will affect all of our bottom lines, I think the minority who have a problem should speak up.

Pay attention, THE VAST MAJORITY DO NOT THINK THIS RULE IS NEEDED! I appreciate that you want to be proactive but a rule to stop a percieved problem is not a good rule. If somebody wants to run thin oil, let them. It won't get them to the front with our current rules in place. Capping horsepower will be such an easy thing to get around, and expensive for all of the rest of us.

Make a decision soon so I know if I'm buying a new seat or dyno time.

Joe I am so glad that YOU know what WE want.

However, I believe that you are miss informed.

The days of a junkyard dog being competitive is gone. Let's deal with reality.

The guys with weak motors are going to have to accept that they will need to do a good valve job and shave the head to bump compression or be happy with the HP they have.

If all these drivers were driving their cars to it's fullest potential we would not be having this conversation. HP will do no good to a driver who has not developed his racing skills first.
I believe that a large population of 944 drivers know this.
That is why you keep hearing NO NEW RULES!!!!

So we have a head count from So-Cal, anybody else want to poll their drivers and see what they think about the 142hp proposal?

Thank you Ron Dale and others for speaking up. It is your race series don't let the directors forget that.

Easy guys. The constructive debate has been good, but let's not start calling people out. We're listening

Let's look at this from another angle.

Is anything that we can't find with the current rules fair game, no matter what the result?
Is there a threshold, where it becomes a problem?

145HP?
150HP?

We've only scratched the surface of what can be done and not found, given a big budget.
Honing, and resurfacing the bores to make them perfectly round, and micropolishing motor & driveline bits, are just a couple of the big money ways you can add together to make make real power.

If there is a threshold, how do find out if were there yet?

We're open to better ideas.

I have seen proven cheating in this series, and I've suspected it, and not been able to prove it, at Nationals, in 2008 (before any of this debate came up). That guy blew up his motor while in the National Championship race, making pursing this impractical. This person did not go to Nationals in '09, or '10, but his cheating in 944 Cup is legendary, and was a large part of the demise of the Great Lakes region of 944 Cup. This guy owns his own shop, and is a successful pro racer. He has unlimited resources, good talent, and makes an art out of being "creative." A dangerous combination that none commenting on this thread have not seen personally, I believe. I won't go into why I suspected cheating in this incident here, but it was not idle speculation, nor a witch hunt...

The lesson of this was not lost on me, though as an isolated incident, I did not pursue rules changes based on this alone. This type of "threat" is still out there. Non invasive tech did not find the issue in the qualifying races, though it did identify some things he was forced to correct. I am not sure even a tear down would have found it. Would a dyno have helped? Maybe, but there was no dyno reference in the rules to stick him on a dyno, and see, so we'll never know. Yes, he may have been able to fool the dyno, too.

Joe brings his perspective, this is part of what colors mine. Hopefully this fills in some of the "why" that's been asked. I am keeping an open mind on wether any given "cure" is worse than the problem.

So again, at what point does this become and issue, and how best to deal with it?

Having raced in the 944 Cup dyno series, I can tell you first hand just like JB3 said that this won't fix anything.

To be clear, I'm totally against this rule because it isn't necessary in this series. THERE IS NO CHEATING EPIDEMIC IN 944 SPEC.

However, I understand where the directors are coming from. IF a rule like this is put into effect it should be based only on competitor protest. If someone files a protest against another driver for suspected excessive HP, the person who protests should pay for the dyno if the car is legal (under whatever corrected limit is decided). If the car exceeds the limit, the car owner should pay.

To Ron, no matter what happens, I'm not seeing anyone in NorCal forcing dyno enforcement anytime soon. Let's not get too excited.

My experience is that we have a bunch of good guys out enjoying the competition. I don't see anyone building crazy engines to win and even if they did, HP still won't win any races by itself - especially on the NorCal tracks.