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Rules meeting at Nationals
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TOPIC: Rules meeting at Nationals

Rules meeting at Nationals 15 years, 3 months ago #5195

With most of us at Nationals it will be a good time to talk about rules changes . NASA National will also be there to help offer ideas...

If you can not make please pass along your feelings/ thoughts to your local series director.

Mabe we can combine this with one of our pizza parties !

"Pizza and Rules" , "Pizza RULZ"
Last Edit: 15 years, 3 months ago by SvoChuck.

Re:Rules meeting at Nationals 15 years, 2 months ago #5312

  • cbuzzetti
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Let me just say this one more time. "NO NEW RULES"

I am all for getting down to one tire and one shock and that is it.
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Re:Rules meeting at Nationals 15 years, 2 months ago #5321

  • Weston
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cbuzzetti wrote:
Let me just say this one more time. "NO NEW RULES"

I am all for getting down to one tire and one shock and that is it.


I'm not in favor of making any big changes either, but there's always room for improvement, and there are at least some things that need to be clarified and/or tightened up. One example is that everyone is currently forced to play in a gray area when replacing parts, rebuilding heads, etc... We have 21-26 year old cars, so the reality is that we're all using aftermarket replacement parts somewhere, whether we realize it or not, plus there are issues like the turbo head gasket being the de facto replacement part, and so on.

While I don't think anyone would be a poor sport and try to protest over the typical things, and I hope we have enough sense that it wouldn't hold up, but there's a huge potential for abuse. We don't specify where it's legal to use aftermarket replacement parts and where it isn't, so someone who shows up with aftermarket 10.2:1 pistons could easily make a case that it's just as legal as those of us who have had to replace a starter, alternator, reference sensors, valves, windshield, fenders, and so on. We're just operating with an unwritten rule right now, and it's very subjective. Like it or not, we're growing and we're going to face the same issues that every other big class has. Let's learn from classes like Spec Miata... if they ran with our rules, it would be total chaos.


It's also worth considering ways to equalize the '83-'87 engine with the '88 engine... Simply shaving the head is clearly not the same. We started as a class where you could take any '83-'88 engine in decent shape, from a junkyard or wherever, and be about equal. But now we've seen quite a number of people spending thousands of dollars building fresh motors, and they're all 88's, of course. So, now a new '88 motor is the standard for our class, many people obviously feel that they need to have one to be competitive, and some people are also pushing the limits of that on top of it.

Give a small bonus to cars that don't have '88 pistons, such as a little less weight, and you effectively improve the afforability and the level of competition of our class, because now they don't need big-money pistons and an engine rebuild. We're a stock engine class, so we should only be rebuilding engines because of wear and/or broken parts, not because someone with an '88 engine passed you and now you're convinced that you need one too. Perception alone is a big deal for our continued success, and we all know that there are real numbers behind the '88 engine case too.

As for people taking liberties with the rules when building engines, there are so many ways to mess with stuff that it's just a can of worms to try to police. The most practical option is to keep that all illegal, and give ourselves another way to catch it and to limit how much people can exploit loopholes and gray areas: add a maximum WHP limit on the dyno, with no allowance for restrictor plates. That doesn't replace the other rules, it just adds sort of a catch-all so that things stay reasonable.
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Last Edit: 15 years, 2 months ago by Weston.

Re:Rules meeting at Nationals 15 years, 2 months ago #5329

  • fishguy
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Weston wrote:
add a maximum WHP limit on the dyno, with no allowance for restrictor plates. That doesn't replace the other rules, it just adds sort of a catch-all so that things stay reasonable.[/quote]
this is a good idea.

I wanted to see about having a way to equalize the phone dial wheels with the slightly lighter cookie cutters.
maybe having the tire guys add wheel weight of a certain amount to them to equalize them out a bit more.
I think i heard the phone dials are ~ 2lbs heavier per wheel.
thats alot in the racing world.

just throwing that out there.

Re:Rules meeting at Nationals 15 years, 2 months ago #5330

There are lots of minor variations in the cars, but so far they balance out quite nicely. The slightly heavier late offset wheels are attached to the slightly superior late offset suspension geometry. Pick your poison.

BTW, the significantly lighter, and shorter 205 RA-1's provided no discernible acceleration benefit on a long straight by my data acquisition. Small wheels to start with = less of an issue.
Eric Kuhns

National Director Emeritus

2007, & 2008 National Champion
2011, 2012 2nd

Re:Rules meeting at Nationals 15 years, 2 months ago #5331

in a few weeks wewill see if 88 pistons make more power on a dyno. from '07 the non 88 pistons made 2 more hp than the 88's.

made if you run 88 pistons you must use the 88 computer ? the 88 computer seems to pull timing.
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