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2017 Rules Proposal Thread
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TOPIC: 2017 Rules Proposal Thread

Re: 2017 Rules Proposal Thread 7 years, 12 months ago #21226

  • KJZ78701
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"I would say, "If it makes your car go faster THAN THE OTHER GUYS CAR, you can't do it." We want equal cars, right? If not, you're in the wrong class. We want the driver and suspension set up to be what determines the winner."

Tim, I am curious. What percentage of cars in this class are optimized to the rules? Would your answer have been any different if I asked five years ago? If you think there is more development room, please get ahead of that. So far, I think you have been lucky that development has moved forward rather slowly. Dyno guidelines are not just for the officials at the track. If I finish this build, I am going to the dyno to optimize my numbers before I ever hit the track from both power output and proof of compliance standpoints. Please see attached and then go back and review my suggestions again and let us know what you think.

Dan, "China" is no longer synonymous with "crap". I don't doubt that you did a lot of research, but I don't think you are at the right price point just yet.
Attachments:
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Re: 2017 Rules Proposal Thread 7 years, 11 months ago #21227

I would definitely back the allowance of the only944 short shift kit. It is an inexpensive item that would possibly help to tighten up some people's shifters (some of us really need to find something to stop it being so incredibly sloppy).

My own car has stock componentry for the shifter and feels like a perfectly modern gearbox however, but I do not think reducing the throws themselves would really even offer any performance benefit. I can shift much faster in the 944 than I can in my modern VW Golf- I don't know much about the mechanics of gearboxes, but throw distance =/= shift speed.
Kyle Kimball

Orange 1984 944 #444
Last Edit: 7 years, 11 months ago by kimballkc.
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Re: 2017 Rules Proposal Thread 7 years, 11 months ago #21231

  • tcomeau
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Kyle,
I've heard that guys are getting the slop out by installing the "only 944" rear linkage improvements. You should have a fresh shift lever or use the bearing system shifter part by the same company. No change in shifting speed/throw.

Karl,
Not sure what that dyno graph was? Certainly doesn't apply to 944's. You're welcome to dyno tune all you want. If you find a way to make your car faster than everyone else's and within the current rules, we'll change the rules to exclude it. That's why chips and headers were banned after several seasons. SOME guys were going to the dyno and spending 30 hrs to get an advantage before even getting to the grid. You can either BE fast, or BUY fast. This class is about driving well, not tinkering.
Tim Comeau
SoCal 944 Spec #22 since Feb 2003.
Let's keep building it!
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Re: 2017 Rules Proposal Thread 7 years, 11 months ago #21236

  • cbuzzetti
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I propose to allow the battery to be moved to the passenger seat area. This will give the car a better weight balance, wont require a high cost battery and does not cost alot to upgrade.

I have the full 944only short shifter in my PTD car. It is better than the stock system but is not a true short shifter. It still has a pretty long throw but the gain in shifter accuracy was noticeable.

A transmission can only be shifted so fast. As much as I oppose rules changes I think this one is worthwhile.

If all cars were equal it would tighten the group as a whole but most likely will not change who is on the podium.

I do like the aftermarket wheels but dont think there is a true shortage yet. I have a set of late offset phonies for sale if anyone is looking.

A rule to allow an adjustable cam gear on LC cars may be needed. Any car under the power cap should be given leeway to get to the cap. This is a low cost option to help.

I am still opposed to having a DME with a higher rev limit. All should have the option for the higher rev limit or none should have it. If you are defending the higher rev limit please explain why you think it is fair and it is not an advantage. SPEC=SAME.

Do we need all the engine rules if we have a HP/TQ cap?
2018 NASA 944Spec National Champ
2018 NASA ST5 P2 944 Nationals COTA
2017 NASA 944Spec WSC P3
2016 NASA PTD-944 WSC P2
2015 NASA GTS1 Western Champion
2014 NASA 944Spec Western Champion
2013 NASA 944Spec So-Cal Regional Champion
2013 NASA 944Spec National P3
2010 NASA GTS-1 National Champion
2010 NASA 944Spec National P3
2010 NASA So-Cal 944Spec Regional Champion
2009 NASA 944Spec National Champion
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Re: 2017 Rules Proposal Thread 7 years, 11 months ago #21237

  • KJZ78701
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Thanks for the response Tim, but you didn't answer my question or reply to my suggestions.

The dyno graph came from a Dynojet (spelled out in the rules as the Dyno used for compliance) which, as you can see, produces different torque values in different gears. This goes directly to my suggestion that the rules should include a specification for the selected gear during the compliance run. If there is a counter-argument, someone should present it.

I am also concerned about your remark:

If you find a way to make your car faster than everyone else's and within the current rules, we'll change the rules to exclude it.

This is great if you are already in the class and have a less than optimized car, but you are also trying to encourage more people to build cars and join you. I am on the outside looking in and your approach bothers me. Am I am alone? I gave you another suggestion to replace the (HP+TQ)/2 formula with a torque table. Can you see how this would protect BOTH those already in the class and those like me who want to build and join?

...and how do you exclude a perfect build?
Last Edit: 7 years, 11 months ago by KJZ78701.
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Re: 2017 Rules Proposal Thread 7 years, 11 months ago #21240

  • tcomeau
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I don't think anyone, including the dyno operator would dyno a car in anything BUT 4th gear, but let's add that to the rules.
A "perfect build" car is still within the rules.
Tim Comeau
SoCal 944 Spec #22 since Feb 2003.
Let's keep building it!
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