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Rule Change Requests for 2016
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TOPIC: Rule Change Requests for 2016

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 8 years, 12 months ago #20014

  • RacerX
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  • Endurance Racer
  • Posts: 351
afonseca wrote:
RacerX wrote:
Short throw shifters are a performance advantage allowing faster shifting.


As you said, we are talking about Ronald Regan era cars here, the transmission will only let you get into gear so fast so there is no performance increase here. It's just a "feel" modification so those that are happy with the way the shifter feels need not spend any money.


Sorry to say but you are wrong. It is a fulcrum and lever system, just like we learned back in 6th grade. A short throw shifter is just that. A shorter throw using more energy (effort) to move the lever a shorter distance thereby decreasing the time to shift. Why do you think they invented "short throw" shifters in the first place? The transmission will let you shift as fast as you can go. Replace the worn parts and your transmission will shift just fine.
Ken Frey #3 944-Spec MW Region

"Racing is life! Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

Check out my build thread!!
www.944-spec.org/944SPEC/forum/race-car-...d/9155-new-car-build

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 8 years, 12 months ago #20015

  • dpRacing Dan
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  • 944 Spec National Director
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Ok I've been silently watching all the forum threads here but I have to speak up a bit here to correct some things.
Crooks, I don't think you are properly informed of the demographic of 944 Spec racers in the midwest. Most of our racers have been in 944 spec for less than 3 years. Infact, I'd venture to say we have the MOST "NEW" 944 racers in any region. We have 2 racers getting licensed in early 2016, 2 brand new racers in our final 2015 race, and 2 more starting in 944 Spec in 2016. I think you are making some uneducated blanket statements about the region which are unjustified.
Lets also not forget that even if you ARE the new group, rules are made to help the majority of the class, new, old, east, west, or other. The 944Spec class has had great even racing, and the founders and senior members have worked hard to keep it this way. Let's not disrespect the OG's here, and keep this productive.
Next, you need to know the real story of the dyno results to be able to speak on them- and it seems you dont. Were you aware that the dyno initially used at Nats read 12-16hp higher than the second dyno used 20 minutes later with zero changes to the cars? This initial dyno yielded results that were record breaking, and OBVIOUSLY incorrect.
I think its important for everyone to realize the dyno rule was put in place to keep the field even, and insure fair racing. This means that we as a class are trying to keep competition even. Make sure you know all the facts about what's going on. I've attached 2 images showing the comparison of the 2 dyno's from East Coast nats.
I think most of these rule suggestions were started with proper intentions and execution, but seem to be getting a bit off track with personal opinions and arguing.
Also lets try to keep to just stating our proposed rules and reasons, pro's and con's. Let's avoid pointing fingers and accusing people of damaging the class by not agreeing with suggested rules. This type of attitude isnt' productive and won't be tolerated.
Attachments:
Last Edit: 8 years, 12 months ago by dpRacing Dan.

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 8 years, 12 months ago #20018

  • Crooks
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  • Junior Racer
  • Posts: 44
In what way are any of my or any other comments disparaging of anyone personally or any region? Almost all of the change proposals are made by newer drivers. Almost all of the comments opposed to rules changes are based on past history and old timers’ experience. That is a fact. Old or new shouldn’t make a difference; we have seen valid arguments from both. Disagreements of this nature define political argumentation, that’s not a bad thing. We should objectively consider all proposals as well as the objections. That is the best way to base these decisions on good information. That people are passionate about these is understandable. I have not seen any disrespectful comments from either side. I clearly stated that I totally respect the guys who have been racing these cars for years. If we had little or no participation concerning rule changes you would have something to worry about.
I’m happy that you have some number of new drivers in the Midwest, but understand that the southeast has 0 drivers with more than 3 years. I question how healthy the class is, compare the number of e-30 competitors with 944s at the championships, our cars are demonstrably better machines as well as being less expensive. Why do they outnumber us?
I am informed about the dyno issues at VIR; your explanation is exactly what I understood. Readings from a dyno are always relative, that does not mean they should be ignored. In this case, I understand why the procedure was modified, I don’t question the intention, nor do I disrespect those who made the decision but I do think it was a mistake. The bottom line is: Did we follow the rule as written? The answer is clearly NO! That will keep drivers away.
Please don’t take any of my comments personally, the issue is rules not people. (no matter how stupid they are). For any of you without a sense of humor that was a joke.

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 8 years, 12 months ago #20019

  • rd7839
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  • Endurance Racer
  • Posts: 625
He may have been referring to my comments that now when I read them back do sound a little pissy! I was typing with a smile on my face but I guess that is hard to see on this screen . I certainly meant no disrespect, specifically towards Mr Stanley. I love watching his videos, he sure can drive. His car is also beautiful and since I hope to retire to Knoxville, TN soon I should probably not alienate everybody there before they meet me.

I just feel strongly about keeping things cheap because I love this class and have a low budget. I may be wrong about how I state things, I know my wife calls me an a--hole all the time so maybe she's right!
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sterling Doc

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 8 years, 12 months ago #20020

  • cbuzzetti
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  • Endurance Racer
  • 944 Spec = The best racing on the planet
  • Posts: 1192
I have often wondered why a new driver picks a specific class to race in. I have talked to alot of drivers about this and the resounding reason is it is a car/marque they have always liked. Most new drivers coming into the sport dont know enough to choose correctly. Sometimes they enter the sport by converting their street car. But where do you go with a Ford Probe or Dodge Neon?

As a spec car racer for almost all of the 18 years I have road raced cars I was always drawn to the competition. The spec classes had the highest participation numbers and the best racing. I think alot of new drivers are put off by a high level of competition. It sucks to be at the back.

In So-Cal we spent alot of time helping drivers get up to speed. Having less experienced drivers start on pole so they got to see what it was like. Doing lead follow sessions on practice days etc. It definetly helped close the grouping and made for better racing for all.

Hands down the 944 is the best factory based spec racer. The handling qualities of the 944 are unmatched except for maybe the Miata.

The Porsche brand does have a stigma of being expensive. Fortunately that does not hold true to racing a 944. Clutches, brakes, bearings, engines, wheels and suspension pieces have proven to be very reliable and cheap to find used replacements when needed.

I wish there was a magic bullet to draw new drivers into the class. It seems to be based on regions more than anything else. Recruiting from HPDE may be the best solution. The 944 is by far the best looking car in the top 3 spec series IMO.

Ron sorry to hear you will be leaving Nor Cal. You will be a benefit to any region you join.
2018 NASA 944Spec National Champ
2018 NASA ST5 P2 944 Nationals COTA
2017 NASA 944Spec WSC P3
2016 NASA PTD-944 WSC P2
2015 NASA GTS1 Western Champion
2014 NASA 944Spec Western Champion
2013 NASA 944Spec So-Cal Regional Champion
2013 NASA 944Spec National P3
2010 NASA GTS-1 National Champion
2010 NASA 944Spec National P3
2010 NASA So-Cal 944Spec Regional Champion
2009 NASA 944Spec National Champion
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sterling Doc

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 8 years, 12 months ago #20023

  • RacerX
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  • Endurance Racer
  • Posts: 351
cbuzzetti wrote:
I have often wondered why a new driver picks a specific class to race in. I have talked to alot of drivers about this and the resounding reason is it is a car/marque they have always liked. Most new drivers coming into the sport dont know enough to choose correctly. Sometimes they enter the sport by converting their street car. But where do you go with a Ford Probe or Dodge Neon?

As a spec car racer for almost all of the 18 years I have road raced cars I was always drawn to the competition. The spec classes had the highest participation numbers and the best racing. I think alot of new drivers are put off by a high level of competition. It sucks to be at the back.

In So-Cal we spent alot of time helping drivers get up to speed. Having less experienced drivers start on pole so they got to see what it was like. Doing lead follow sessions on practice days etc. It definetly helped close the grouping and made for better racing for all.

Hands down the 944 is the best factory based spec racer. The handling qualities of the 944 are unmatched except for maybe the Miata.

The Porsche brand does have a stigma of being expensive. Fortunately that does not hold true to racing a 944. Clutches, brakes, bearings, engines, wheels and suspension pieces have proven to be very reliable and cheap to find used replacements when needed.

I wish there was a magic bullet to draw new drivers into the class. It seems to be based on regions more than anything else. Recruiting from HPDE may be the best solution. The 944 is by far the best looking car in the top 3 spec series IMO.

Ron sorry to hear you will be leaving Nor Cal. You will be a benefit to any region you join.


Being the 3-4 Group Leader, it was a no-brainer to ask who was planning to continue on to a race group, even if it's a year or so away. You have to sell them the idea. Plant the seed!! I draw on my own experiences to help them decide what class is best for them, even if it's not ours. Remember when you were in their position? Trying to decide what to do? If you "take them by the hand" and lead them, they will follow. You can't push them. Let them decide.

AIX, AI, GTS are all money classes, how much do you want to spend, brake pads, rotors, tires and then the big $$$ motor build. If you compare this with a Spec class, there's no comparison for cost. The Spec class wins every time. Now compare the Spec classes, Miata, E-30, 944 and point out the cost differences. Now point out how the Miata guys paddock all over and don't share while the 944 guys paddock all together, share data, parts and knowledge. Now pick apart the E-30 guys. Next invite them over to look at the cars and meet the rest of the guys.

You've just opened up their eyes and filled their brain so let it sink in. It might take a while but you can work on him/her for the rest of the season. Save them a paddock spot by the group for the next race so they can see the group in action and feel like they belong. This all starts with someone going over to them!! Series Directors, you have to make the first move!! Good luck recruiting!
Ken Frey #3 944-Spec MW Region

"Racing is life! Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

Check out my build thread!!
www.944-spec.org/944SPEC/forum/race-car-...d/9155-new-car-build
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