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Rule Change Requests for 2016
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TOPIC: Rule Change Requests for 2016

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 8 years, 11 months ago #20145

  • AgRacer
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rd7839 wrote:
Man, if the mutli time national and western champion, not to mention gts and regional champ, says there's not a problem then there probably isn't. I think his vote should override everyone else.

I thought I had shifter problems and rebuilt the lever and changed the rear mechanism and still had to drop out of the 2014 nationals. Turns out it was the slave cylinder and the clutch wouldn't disengage fully sometimes. I drove one of the qualifying races without using the pedal and even with the 30 year old shift linkage and tranny I was able to find a gear and even finished pretty well. For the next event I pulled the slave and hose from my parts car that was frayed and cracked and it did just fine, the cost was zero.

Seriously I think we should not have a rules proposal period every year. It leads to some sort of new rule that might not be needed. I propose a rules committee be set up and they decide if something is needed and then get the input from us and decide from there. I also think a former or current champ should sit on this committee.

BTW, I AM for the 3 peice crossmember. It's not a performance advantage, can be done at home or bought, and would help with working under the motor.


I've never raced west of Texas but I still know who Buzzetti is without you swinging his sack for him. I say congratulations to him since hes dealt with making a sorry excuse for a shifter fast for 8 years now. Just because you two have dealt with the problem for the longest out of all of us doesn't mean that we should continue to deal with the problem for the next 8 years.

If you want to use resume to qualify one's feedback around here, then let me introduce myself: I am Jason Stanley, the Southeast Region Series Director. I hold track records in 944Spec for every Southeast region track except one (Damn you Kuhns!). I am the 2014 Southeast Region Champion and am leading the points for 2015. I placed second in class at the 2015 Eastern Champs and was one oil slick away from likely winning in 2014 (thanks Agran). I also won the 2015 GTS1 Eastern Championship handily. I just finished Company Command of a US Army UH-60 Blackhawk Command Aviation Company where I was responsible for the manning, training, and equipping of 8 UH-60 Blackhawks and over 70 Soldiers where I routinely challenged old assumptions to fix old problems.

This shifter rule is an old assumption (its good enough) and an old problem (everyone knows it sucks, even when brand new).

As the Southeast region director, I actually talk to my racers on a regular basis and work on productive feedback which would IMPROVE our region and the class as a whole just like I would while I was a Company Commander. I even go so far as to reach out to the PCA racers, both in our region and back in Texas to see what feedback they have. Why do you think you have so many Southeast region racers being vocal on here? (Crooks, Wera44, S2k4j) For the 2 years that Ive been region director I have discussed potential rule changes with the class both at the track and via email. Both years the shifter has come up as needing improvement. It will continue to come up until there is a change. Over the last year every early offset suspension racer has said cookie cutters are hard to find just as a matter of discussion, which is why I worked on a very viable wheel proposal which would unquestionably benefit those who cant find cookie cutters.

Moving on to others who have established pedigrees as racers in the class commenting on these rules:

FDJeremy is the two time Mid-South Champion who is in favor of a shifter rule change.

danl4444 is the 2014 East States Champion and the 2015 West States Champion who is also in favor of a shifter rule change.

You may call this rules creep, but I say it should have been incorporated since the beginning given how well known the 944's shifter sucks. As I continue to try and grow the Southeast region, I try to recruit new racers who have to make the decision between the spec classes. With 20+ car SE30 fields at regional races in the Southeast, its hard to recruit against that size. Time and again we have potential racers drive our cars and say they feel so much more like a race car than the SE30 aside from the shifter, then go buy a SE30. The fact that a well built SE30 costs $5-10 grand more doesn't have an impact on the choice.

Nobody is saying the stock linkage doesn't work, what we are saying is that it's not suitable for racing, and a better solution is out there for minimal cost expense given the large bottom line it takes to fund even just a fun regional racing season. When this passes, this year or next, it'll be easier for more racers to shift these cars properly which will tighten the competition and maybe some of these track records will go to other racers in each region. I for one am excited about more competition, not trying to block rules which will prevent it.
J. Stanley
NASA-SE Region 944 Spec Series Director
Yellow #60
Last Edit: 8 years, 11 months ago by AgRacer.

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 8 years, 11 months ago #20146

  • dpRacing Dan
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I know this rule proposal time can be frustrating to many, but I think it's good to get racers input to see what people around the country are thinking about.
I respect all drivers inputs equally, whether they've won every race under the sun or not. When did this turn into an ego session- lol!
Although we dont have a "board", I will have a vote from my series directors on certain rules proposals that will be separate from the general forum. After that it's up to me to decide whether or not to go by how the vote goes or not- so don't worry! The burden lays on me and me alone. Just know that however I judge I hope everyone can understand that I will do so with the best intentions for the class. I wont be able to make everyone happy, but will do my best to look out for the majority and do what I think will most benefit our class.

ugh- can't wait to focus on Nationals!
The following user(s) said Thank You: cgktexas, FDJeremy

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 8 years, 11 months ago #20147

I can see both sides of the shifter issue. I rebuilt my old spec one from a bunch of used parts, and it worked pretty well (see my build thread from 2009). No money shifts. We've resisted making this change for a long time due to rules creep concerns, and cost (though the Only 944 shifter is cheaper than previously available options).

On the other hand, the rear plastic part is getting harder to source in serviceable condition, and often difficult to rebuild as the snap rings get rusty and seized. Time is money, too, and sourcing a bunch of used parts and rebuilding the rear linkage is time consuming. Many new builds do have terrible shifters.

When I built my ST2 "Franken44" I had no second thoughts about buying the Only 944 shifter. It is a quality piece, and a very good value. I can't tell that it speeds up shift times. I could shift my Spec car more quickly than I can my current car, but that may be due to the heavier duty nature of the AOR (turbo) transmission. I can say the shift quality has not deteriorated over time.

Somehow rules season manages to get emotional/personal every year.
In the end, I don't think either outcome is a problem, or worth quite amount of drama pouring out here. If the rule passes, the cost is small, and the performance gain so small as to be undetectable on track. If it does not pass, some will have to work harder to make their shift linkages work well, but it can be done, and life goes on, too.

Whatever the outcome, lets let this go once the decision is made, and make the best of things-help each other get those cars ready for racing!

The wheels are a much bigger price point, and a more important outcome, but even then won't change the actual racing that we all love one way or the other.

I appreciate Dan is stepping up to put himself out there to make these decisions! There are tough decisions to be made as these wonderful cars get older.
Eric Kuhns

National Director Emeritus

2007, & 2008 National Champion
2011, 2012 2nd
Last Edit: 8 years, 11 months ago by Sterling Doc.

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 8 years, 11 months ago #20148

To most: Thank you for your input on the rule changes. Lots of great data.

To some: Thank you for the entertainment.

To a select few: Sheesh!! Get over yourselves.

Here are my thoughts

1) Wheels. No. Our wheels are plentiful and opening this up will just be a mess to regulate.

2) Shifters. Yes to all. It is a weak area of the car and there is no performance gain.

3) Bumper. Yes. But I must caution anyone trying to weld on these as they are an oil filled shock under pressure. I would recommend we be allowed to make our own supports and that they have to be of a stock length to prevent repositioning of the bumpers.

4) Dyno. No. The rule is fine as is. The implementation needs work.

5) Crank scraper. Yes. No real power gain on an engine of our displacement. My thinking is it will help reduce aeration of the oil. This has often been thought to be the reason for our #2 rod bearing failure.

6) Spare tire well. Yes. But it must be formed in a way to make it removable. We need to be able to check for hidden ballast. It also should be made from fire resistant foam.

7) Coil-overs. God I wish but, no. Too costly.
Michael Dearstyne
NASA-SE 944Spec "Commander" Retired
2012 NASA-SE 944Spec Champion
2013 NASA-SE 944Spec Champion

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 8 years, 11 months ago #20149

  • phlip
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Why not just make shifters free. Not like you could spend that much on it.
Diffs are free and you could spend thousands on one of those.
--------------
Phil --------
NASA TX
944 SPEC #030
The following user(s) said Thank You: afonseca

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 8 years, 11 months ago #20150

  • AgRacer
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JUSTMERACING wrote:
To a select few: Sheesh!! Get over yourselves.





Thanks! You just wish you could have gotten in on this fun sooner! Ill have a red bull and vodka ready for you at the Toy Run if your game to come down with either car and play.

phlip wrote:
Why not just make shifters free. Not like you could spend that much on it.
Diffs are free and you could spend thousands on one of those.


Phil! This guy taught me everything I knew about 944s back in Texas, except how much fuel to put in for a race (Hallett). My thoughts exactly!
J. Stanley
NASA-SE Region 944 Spec Series Director
Yellow #60
Last Edit: 8 years, 11 months ago by AgRacer.
The following user(s) said Thank You: cgktexas
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